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Rainey Ranting
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:53 am    Post subject: Rainey Ranting Reply with quote

gingerpale wrote:
Rainey--I'm not sure I get your new signature, but no, I don't think W cares about me. Are you saying all wars and terror and incompetence are connected through the Iraq mess? I think Bush cares about his rich crook friends, and there's nothin' worse than a rich person stealing.


Since we're here in Other Topics I'll explain here. I'm saying we have a government that doesn't represent the real needs of Americans and every time live citizens (as opposed to slavering after rich corporations and tax-exempt megachurches) are in dire need we see the Bush administation's callousness and incompetence in painfully dramatic ways.

They have argued that 9/11 caught them off guard and if I take them at their word that they're not capable of interpreting an intelligence memo that said terrorists were determined to attack using planes as weapons as meaning terrorists had the intention of attacking the US using planes as weapons, then that is the benchmark from which they still haven't learned a damned thing in 6 years and counting.

Bush is an incompetent pig in the employ of Halliburton and other multinational firms that don't give a tinker's damn about us and why we haven't risen up at the White House gates with torches and pitchforks since they refused to count American votes in 2000 mystifies and demoralizes me more than I can express.

Oh, and, yes, I think he's further destabilized a part of the world that has been agonized and volatile for 50 years with his adventuring but that wasn't what part of what I meant to put in that signature.
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rant on, Rainey--
either the heat is making us cranky, or this IS the worst president ever. Sorry, didn't mean to question your signature, just suprised to see that anger all of a sudden, covering so much time and space! I agree with everything you said, and am hope hope hoping someone will come along in '08. Meanwhile the sadness increases all over our world. We have too many fascinatin' distractions. [/b]


Last edited by gingerpale on Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does one respond to Americans in fear of their lives and totally ignored by their government except by being furious? They tried to make us believe when it happened in New Orleans it was a fluke or the responsibility of local government but the non-response to Americans in Lebanon is an identical pattern of hard-hearted neglect.
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Donna



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 827
Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam and I were talking today about this war in the Middle East. I know that all it would take is the WILL of someone to end it - maybe a few someones. Not me, obviously - or it would be over and done with. But SOMEONE could stop this if there was the will.

Bush et al are being so shortsighted and cynical. They want Hezbollah destroyed and are willing to have Israeli and Lebanese civilians killed to have that happen. They do not take into account the anti-American sentiment that continues to grow. The entire region may just implode any minute if someone with what we in California call "cojones" doesn't get over there and get to work.

This is the worst of politics, watching this vicious game go on with no one stepping up to the plate to say "Let's talk".
Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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BG



Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Cambridge, MA (USA)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:29 am    Post subject: I totally agree ... Reply with quote

... with you, Rainey, things are looking worse every day. But I come to C&Z to forget all that! (I know, it's still happening even when you aren't noticing.) At home, we started a rule -- when one of us begins talking about the day's news over dinner, the other says, "calma, calma" to remind the first that this our dinner time, and we won't enjoy it nor digest our food properly if we spoil it with all the ugliness that's out there. Hope you can "compartmentalize" too.
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Less well all the time I'm sorry to say. In fact, I spent a serious period of time just recently hardy able to function at all with the inmates in charge of the asylum.

Personally, I don't think the response to dangerous people in power is "polite" silence and I thought people who asked for an explanation were due one. But I will happily confine my declaration to my signature line from this point on. Altho if anyone wants me to know how they feel about it, they are free to respond to me here in Other Things (as Clotilde as agreed previous is appropriate) or in private messages. It isn't my intention to have the only or the last word on the subject. And if Clotilde or her staff change their mind or thinks something has gone too far I will happily concede that the thread be pulled im├ędiatement.
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BG- After a moment of reflection I want to be sure to say that I take your wish not to have to read this stuff seriously. That is why I have removed every other bit of politically tinged sarcasm or reference (with the exception to the links provided where the explanations were asked for) to this specific and easily ignored spot. And I hope you find my tiny little signature equally easy to ignore.

I mean that sincerely.
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Judy



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 1196
Location: buried under a pile of books somewhere in Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After numerous rounds of "We don't even know if Osama is still alive,"
Osama himself decided to send George Bush a letter in his own handwriting to let him know he was still in the game.

Bush opened the letter and it appeared to contain a single line of coded
message:
370H-SSV-0773H.

Bush was baffled, so he sent it to Condoleezza Rice.

Condi and her aides had not a clue either, so they sent it to the FBI. No
one at the FBI could solve it either, so it went to the CIA, then to NASA.
Eventually they asked Austrailia's ASIO for help.

Within a minute, ASIO cabled the White House with this reply .

"Tell the President he's holding the message upside down."
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Ok Judy, ha ha on us!) I'm just trying to figure out who BG is, maybe ASIO could help?

Bryant Gumble?
Benny Goodman?
Betty Grable?
Ben-Gurion?
Beau Geste?
Barney Google?
Boy George?
Barry Goldwater?
Billy Graham?
Boris Gudenov?
Bill Gates?


Last edited by gingerpale on Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:40 am; edited 4 times in total
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judy wrote:
370H-SSV-0773H.
...

"Tell the President he's holding the message upside down."


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I was wondering how long it will take before theMiddle East topic will appear on"other things" . It took about 10 days since the fight began, with little hints here and there before. Bravo for the restraint! But I agree with Rainey that silence is not mandatory.
It's a very bizarre feeling to sit here in Tel Aviv, with close relatives in shelters in Haifa and the north, with one victim being af friend of a friend, with the knowledge that it's the same in Lebanon, a read you guys analyzing or giving your opinions on what is going here.
I would not like to hurt anybody's feelings, but how would you feel if you lived in a war zone, with problems that are a little bit more complicated than the recipe of a tomato coulis, and a lot of good intentioned people, but with little or no background, people living peacefully in California, Australia or New Zeeland will say things like Sad I quote Donna's post) : I KNOW THAT ALL IT WOULD TAKE IS THE WILL OF SOMEONE TO END IT ... BUT SOMEONE COULD STOP IT IF THERE WAS THE WILL". Wow, That't it? How simple it sounds. How really simple all that is!!!!
Yes, it makes me very angry when really good intentioned people sum up a 1000 year old problem, with thousands of subcurrents, millions of people involved, many interests , most of which, I'm sorry to say , have nothing to do with the president of the US or with the USA. Maybe before solving our problems so easily, a little research on the history of Hizbolla, Hamas, Fundamentalist Islam, Iran, Irak, Israel, Lebanon , etc. could help to understand a tiny little bit of what is really going on here. It will be no more than 1% understanding, the subject being a "little" more complex, but even 1% is better than 0%. GB , you are a scientist!! Research!
Rainey and Donna, I won't argue with you about Bush. He's your president, elected by your people , and it's not for me to call him names. But not everything in the world is happening because of him or the American "bad guys". You are the most powerful ( thanks G) nation in the world, but you are not the only ones there, and putting the blame of everything happening in the world on one person, is escapism, is running away from seing all the other parameters. This attitude, not only does not help, it only encourages the belligerents al over the world to use this as a cover to the real reasons: how convenient is to have a ready made scapegoat. It's puerile in my opinion, and infuriating, because it prevents all the others to take responsability for their actions ( How convenient for Iran/ Irak/Hizbollah and the others to blame the Great Satan ( US) and the little Satan ( israel) for all their failures and evil doings!!!
I, as a proud Israeli, don't feel I'm fighting for the US , even if there will be side benefits for this great friend of ours. WE, Israelis, feel and believe we are fighting for ourseleves, for our lives, for our country, against people who have declared for years, and still do , publicly, that they want to kill us, decimate us, bomb us, gaz us, annihilate us. No more!. So, please, don't tell us who we are fighting for. It's not W who threatens Israel, the region or the world. How can people be so blind, and ignore the messages of Ben Laden, the Hizbollah and the likes? How can so much evil be ignored, while putting all the blame on one person who appeared on the public scene 6 years ago and will be gone in two years? How can this one person, as much as he may be wrong or corrrupted, be responsible for everything bad happening in the world?
Do you really think the next President, Democrat or Republican will change anything ? Do you really think that America's interests will change overnight? Do you really think that Bush is Islam's problem , and Bush gone, everyone will be happy and live in peace, and love America? Do you really believe that? because if you do, I really envy you. I lost my political innocence long ago. I was also young in the 70' ," make love no war" was so cute, and" flowers in the hair".... We did grow up since.

Dear Rainey, I read your explanation ( thank you for that) but I still don't see the connection between 9/11, New Orleans and Lebanon. It's OK, I don't have to understand everything. But I am happy others do.

No more war.
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Zoe



Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 118
Location: Haifa, Israel

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel compelled to jump in, too. I'm not a regular here like some of you and maybe it's not my place to do this, but I'm probably the only person posting on C&Z who is actually in the middle of all this - I've just come back from another stay in my building's "safe area" (yes, I'm back in Haifa), so I thought I'd offer my perspective.

As Simona wrote, the situation here, on both sides of the border, is tragic and complex - and made even more so by historical events that are not necessarily related to the US and its interests. I won't pretend I'm an expert on the history and politics of the entire Middle East, and I see where you are all coming from. As I wrote before, I appreciate everyone's thoughts and concern. But please don't oversimplify this conflict or the broader situation in the region. There are many who are involved and who influence events. You're doing yourself a disservice if you believe everything in this region happens due to Bush's policies, misguided as some of them may be.
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello to all, more thoughts.
When I read Rainey's new signature I made a connection between 9-11 and Katrina, the incompetence of the current leaders in the US. But it wasn't clear why she would include Lebanon--blaming Bush for bombing Lebanon? It didn't make sense. But now I think she was referring to the slow evacuation of Americans from Lebanon, nothing more. That's why I asked about her signature, which I'm afraid started this.
That said, a few completely my own opinions: When something goes wrong in America, you can pretty much count on $$$ being at the bottom of the mess. In the Middle East, with so much history and religion in the mix, I don't think it's straightforward like that.
I read Time and Newsweek and get an internet newsletter (About Judaism Lisa Katz). I spent time in Israel years ago and loved it. Sometimes I look at the Jerusalem Post, an English language Israeli newspaper, not real objective I don't think.
**I do apologize to Rainey and Simona.**
I hope Clotilde doesn't cut us off!
Zoe I hope you check in often, you sure have a unique perpective to say the least.
I sure sympathize with anyone who has a maybe idealistic view of war--my statements often begin "Why don't they just..." or "Can't they see that..."
BG separates what is happening in the rest of the world from what is happening in his/her personal life. I think that's natural and necessary and unavoidable. Really.
I really like C&Z, I'm pretty new, have been reading the archives that Clotilde has provided--there is much "meat" in them, food-wise, recipe-wise!


Last edited by gingerpale on Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Susan in Italy



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Milan, Italy

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject: Rainey Ranting Reply with quote

I would like to thank you, Simona for bringing the complexity and the seriousness this forum deserves. I think that many of us who have the luxury to live far from this conflict (myself included) tend to see it through a filter whether it be the filter of frustration that one's government is not doing what it could to bring the crisis to an end or the wish to (and luxurious ability to) block he conflict out of a family dinnertime.

Thank you for reminding us that this is much greater than Bush or whoever will replace him. I'm no fan of his but I have met many too many people who are happy to blame myriad world conflicts and crimes against humanity on him singly and on the American people generally while they look uncritically at their own governments. If more people had your nuanced view of things, I think we'd be better off.

I also think that when you said,
Quote:
It's a very bizarre feeling to sit here in Tel Aviv, with close relatives in shelters in Haifa and the north, with one victim being af friend of a friend, with the knowledge that it's the same in Lebanon

that you were trying to express compassion for the people on the other side of the conflict you're now suffering under. Sadly, you may be suffering a bit from the same filter problem (albeit to a much lesser degree). I think your comment is as well meaning as that of those you criticized. Sadly, as of yesterday, there have been 17 civillian deaths in Israel. What you say about Lebanon is false. It is not the same. As of yesterday, there have been 380 deaths there.
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Donna



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 827
Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly apologize for offending anyone by my comments. No, I don't believe that Bush is the cause, nor the solution for all the world's problems.

I do believe that to wait nearly a week before looking into rescuing Americans caught in the crossfire of an unpredicted conflict is a dreadful - and seemingly NOT unexpected - SNAFU. One that Bush and his handlers might have foreseen and gotten ahead of. I believe that their cynical attitude towards most of us Common Americans is what drives decisions such as these.

I do understand the the problem you are facing is much more complex than my simple statement reflected. That said, I do believe that the WILL of politicians, citizens and the military in every country could prevent war from ever taking place again. Of course - that leaves the corporations out of the loop, because it is almost always in most coporate best interest to have a war going on somewhere. No matter who is attacking or being attacked.

Simona, your tagline says "No more war." What would it take to achieve that?
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