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french substitutes
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: french substitutes Reply with quote

cigalechanta wrote:
for Brown sugar and cream of tartar?


Look! Thanksgiving http://www.thanksgivingparis.com/store.htm in the Parisian Marais district has brown sugar, cream of tartar and allspice. How about that?

Who was looking for the allspice?
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cigalechanta



Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 200
Location: cambridge, ma.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I gave this url for the site to the woman who was asking.
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ginparis



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Creme of Tartar you can buy Cremfix here in France made by Ancel. It comes in packets in a small brown box. You can find it in the baking section of most larger grocery stores. It works just the same and most likely is creme of tartar. I've never examined the ingredients to see.

Brown sugar is more and more easy to find these days. Most grocery stores have several kids. Daddy makes a very dark brown sugar in a box and Behin Say makes two varieties in bags - light and darker.
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birgit



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 247
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, english "Creme of Tartar" equals the german "Weinstein". In GB you find it for example in recipes for scones, pancakes, ... It seems that it always needs a partner called bicarbonade of soda. In germany you can buy Weinstein-baking powder in health food stores. But I've never checked the ingredients.

My scottish cookbook (the one with the pancakes) says you can use as a raising agent:
either 1 teaspoon bicarbonade of soda + 2 teaspoons cream of tartar with fresh milk
or 1 teaspoon bicarbonade of soda + 1 teaspoon cream of tartar with buttermilk
or 3 teaspoons baking powder with fresh milk

By trying out the pancake-recipe I found out that with cream of tartar + bicarbonade there are bigger bubbles while baking the dough than with baking powder, and a slightly salty taste, which I think might be the result of the bicarbonade.
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ejm



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might also find it by the name "tartaric acid".

I wonder if jaggery (palm sugar) could be used as a substitute for brown sugar. I just tasted it for the first time - it's delicious - and has a slightly molasses like quality to the flavour. It's more like a solid lump of honey than powdered brown sugar though. We got it at an Indian grocery. I think it is also available at other Asian stores as well. Heh heh, not that jaggery is going to be easier to find that brown sugar.... maybe ask for demerara??

-Elizabeth
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Birgit- May I say first that I love your name?! I think it has a very lyrical quality.

Your description of "weinstein" and its uses and effects makes perfect sense.

Here in the US we have what we call "double acting baking powder" for the same uses you describe in your Scottish cookbook. DA baking powder is an improved relative of the baking powder that was once made of cream of tartar and baking soda. The baking soda breaks down into sodium carbonate and water (causing the leavening action) when it's heated and when it's exposed to acid (like the buttermilk). The cream of tartar was a fruit acid that ensured that there was always enough acid present to get the leavening started. Meanwhile, the bicarbonate of soda neutralizes some of the most assertive acid flavor. Soooo, using weinstein in combination with bicarbonate of soda would be the equivalent of where our double acting baking powder began.

I hope nos amis fran├žais now have a number of options to look for.

I'm still curious if they have in their repertoire things like pancakes, muffins, biscuits, quickbreads, etc. and how they leaven them.
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Ana



Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure there is cream or tartar in France. We have it in Portugal and I remember using it when I was there is the 70's. So if it exists in Portugal it exists in France.

In Portugal the only time I saw cream of tartar ("cremor tartaro" in Portuguese) being used was when whisking egg whites. For cakes, cookies, etc., Portuguese recipes call for either baking powder ("fermento em po") or baking soda ("bicarbonato de soda"). I recall that in the old days cream of tartar was purchased in the drugstore.
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Dairy_Queen



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Chicago and other places

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rainey]What else would effectively be eliminated? Biscuits, cake-style doughnuts, quick breads, pound cakes, many cookies come to mind. What else? Dear god, baking powder (with cream of tartar) is such a basic ingredient in my pantry and my baking![/quote]

My Dear Rainey...how could you have missed the most obvious of Cream of Tartar end products: the Infamous SNICKERDOODLE!!! I remember when I was less than 10 years old and this was the first cookie that I made from the Betty Crocker Cookbook. It was 1962 and the book was in it's first printing. I was transfixed with the oddness of C of T, and when I stuck my moist finger into the jar to taste it, my tongue curled up and my eye lids fluttered! That was enough of an experience to remember Cream of Tartar=Snickerdoodles to last me for life!

Plus, has anyone else used it to clean copper pans? My grandmother always had this stuff on hand; to whip into egg whites, cookies and cleaning.

I find it so odd that here, in America, I can walk into a generic grocery store and find ingredients from literally around the world, but in other world cities they can't find the same selection. At my local Jewel, I have Billington sugars from England, Rose Water from Turkey and Vanilla from Mexico and Madagascar. I must be ignorant in assuming that one large world city does NOT equal another large world city. Especially in regards to brown sugar; I mean just how far is it from England to France vs. flying it over the Atlantic Ocean to Indiana?!
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Lady Amalthea



Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Posts: 136
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found brown sugar at my local Franprix here in Paris. But what I can't find anywhere is stock. Only bouillion cubes. Does stock not exist in Europe? I mean the canned liquid beef or chicken stock. The closest I found was dehydrated vegetable stock. Ick. Any suggestions? I don't have a pot big enough to make my own...
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ejm



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lady Amalthea wrote:
But what I can't find anywhere is stock. [...] I don't have a pot big enough to make my own...


You don't need that big a pot to make stock, Lady Amalthea. And it's dead easy to make. It keeps for at least a couple of days in the fridge and you can also freeze it in portions that you will use. My sister freezes stock in icecube trays.

Here is a page with the recipes we use for making chicken or vegetable stock:

http://ejmtph.crosswinds.net/recipes/soup.html

If you don't want to make very much chicken stock, just use fewer bones. You can also buy stock bones from most butchers. Roast the bones in the oven for about an hour and then proceed with the stock making.

Hope that helps!

-Elizabeth
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Dairy_Queen



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Chicago and other places

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lady Amalthea wrote:
I found brown sugar at my local Franprix here in Paris. But what I can't find anywhere is stock. Only bouillion cubes. Does stock not exist in Europe? I mean the canned liquid beef or chicken stock. The closest I found was dehydrated vegetable stock. Ick. Any suggestions? I don't have a pot big enough to make my own...


Lady Amalthea: My. Point. EXACTLY.!!! What the heck is UP with "not selling stock in Europe!" I mean, it's a BIG mass of land....why no stock?

I was in Amsterdam, Paris, Glasgow and Inverness for the entire gardening season of 2002, for Holland's Floriade, which is a floral show held once a decade.

I was working for a gardening magazine and also hosting talks. I had a flat in Amsterdam and later in the year, I rented a house in Inverness. It did NOT matter where I shopped, the corner store, the large mega mall, Marks & Sparks, Safeway....the idea and concept of "stock" eluded them all! No cubes, no Campbell's, no College Inn. I'm not naive enough to think that American brands would be carried here, but, what about the local brands???

Nothing. Complete and total nothing.

When I asked my partners in crime, who were all native, "Where the HELL is the stock!?" in this country, I was just met with shrugs. I can't believe that there aren't frantic, over-worked moms and dads in Western Europe that don't have the time to make stock from scratch, every time they want soup!

So, I have no answers for you, Lady. I've told my partner that if we ever end up living back in the U.K. that I'm opening up a Mom & Pop grocery store that has at least ONE ENTIRE SHELF devoted to soup stock! Laughing
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ejm



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dairy_Queen wrote:
I can't believe that there aren't frantic, over-worked moms and dads in Western Europe that don't have the time to make stock from scratch, every time they want soup!


Really?? No canned stock anywhere? I remember seeing cans of cassoulet on the hypermarche shelves in several French towns. That's amazing that stock isn't available. Shocked

While I think it very strange that canned stock is not readily available in Europe, I have to say in all seriousness that making stock from scratch takes virtually no time at all, even though stock itself takes at least an hour to actually cook. And a stock pot can be left on its own on a very low simmer (so that it is just barely smiling) for several hours.

So the only real time that is required is how long it takes to wash a celery stick, a carrot and an onion and hack them into largish chunks. The bones from a roasted chicken (or part thereof) can be thrown into a pot with a bouquet garni and just covered with cold water. Put a lid on top, bring it just to a boil and turn it down to the lowest simmer possible. Go away and be busy. After 2 to 5 hours (as long as the simmer was very very slow) strain the stock in a sieve. Et voila!
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Dairy_Queen



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Chicago and other places

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ejm wrote:
Dairy_Queen wrote:
I can't believe that there aren't frantic, over-worked moms and dads in Western Europe that don't have the time to make stock from scratch, every time they want soup!


Really?? No canned stock anywhere? I remember seeing cans of cassoulet on the hypermarche shelves in several French towns. That's amazing that stock isn't available. Shocked


It IS shocking, isn't it! We even asked the store managers if they had it tucked away somewhere strange but the managers didn't even know what we were talking about. And this was in 2002, not 1902!

I think the use of stock, ready-made, HERE is used so prevalently, because although the making of stock is short, it's that dreaded "2 to 5" hour reduction time that kills families. When my friend, Claire, comes home from work at 5:15 with 3 teenage girls in tow, and they all leave at 6:00 for soccer practice, they need to eat NOW...not 7 hours later. Ready made stock is just such a convenience for busy people and procrastinators.
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David



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1855
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Campbell's cartons of beef and chicken broth are one of the best new(ish) products on the shelves today! Love that stuff!
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ejm



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dairy_Queen wrote:

I think the use of stock, ready-made, HERE is used so prevalently, because although the making of stock is short, it's that dreaded "2 to 5" hour reduction time that kills families. When my friend, Claire, comes home from work at 5:15 with 3 teenage girls in tow, and they all leave at 6:00 for soccer practice, they need to eat NOW...not 7 hours later. Ready made stock is just such a convenience for busy people and procrastinators.


I can appreciate that some people just don't want to take the time. But the beauty of stock is that it can be made in advance on an evening when everyone is staying home to watch a movie or do homework. It can be frozen for use on those frantic nights when there is no time to make stock first.

And in a pinch, bouillon cubes can be used to make quite presentable soup. I have made (it's ready in less than 30 minutes) really good broccoli soup using the portion of a bouillon cube that is recommended for one cup of water. The soup is only a little different when made with actual stock. (It is better....)

our broccoli soup recipe
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