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Hebrew calendar question
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: Hebrew calendar question Reply with quote

My husband and I were talking over breakfast and we became fascinated by a question. Does anyone know if there's an event that marked the beginning of keeping time via the Hebrew calendar? Something akin to the birth of Christ represented by the anno domine in the modern calendar?

How does it relate to the period we (I don't even know what "we" is; the Gregorian calendar perhaps...) call BC? Would the timeframes for the BC period and the earliest years of the Hebrew calendar line up? Is the "beginning" the earliest written records? But, surely, there was time before that too, no?

I have a headache.
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rainey, as I understand it the 'rabbis of old' calculated the ages of everybody in the bible back to Adam and Eve, the day of their creation being day 1. (They were made on God's 6th day of work.)

Speaking of apples, Wink
how did you know I have 2 Granny Smiths and 5 Galas waiting in the kitchen? I want to make Dorie Greenspan's "Russian Grandmother's Apple Pie-Cake" but the recipe is nowhere to be found.

Do you and your husband often discuss ancient Jewish history @ breakfast?
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what Hebrew year are we in that would tell us how old the world is? And how do contemporary Jewish scholars reconcile that with carbon dating?

We just get curious about things and who knows what can come up at any particular time. It was the continuation of a conversation he had had at work and we were trying to guess what signal event might have started the clock ticking.

Your explanation makes perfect sense. We had guessed maybe when Abraham was willing to follow the order to make a human sacrifice of his son. ...but then we don't know if people considered themselves Hebrews before Abraham and, even so, they must have had a concept of "time" before that. But we were looking for some event that might correspond to the birth of Christ. Adam & Eve makes much more sense.

And that would pre-date written history, then?

Just a curiosity and wish to understand....

Hope you find the recipe you're looking for. It really is beginning to feel like apple time again! At least up here. Guess some of our friends are beginning to feel warmer again. ;>

Speaking of which, Israel is closer to the Equator than we are. I wonder if it feels like there are seasons there...
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GP is right, but I think you might also get answers to your questions at the following site:
www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm
We are in year 5768, since the 12th of september 2007. happy New Year!
Of course there is nothing scientific about it. And has nothing to do with what we call pre-written history ( pre-history as opposed to written history which begins in the 4th millenium BC) .


No mor war. No more written- in- blood History .
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, the typical modern calendar (Gregiorian, I think) just sets up a timeframe at a specific event — the birth of Christ (more or less) — and then merrily goes on counting in both ways as appropriate. The Hebrew scholars were gutsier and took a position. ;>

Thanks for the link, simona. Eager to learn more about something I had never thought about before. ;>
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simona- Thanks again. That was a very informative link. ...even if my headache got worse from trying to figure out how your calendar works. ;>

I learned that Common Era and Before the Common Era are other ways to refer to the Gregorian calendar. I think I've heard the expression "Common Era" before but I don't know that I understood it before.

Anyway, thanks. It was most informative. So, do you guys know how to calculate your Hebrew calendars and leap years or do you have to rely on some official to make and publish a declaration?
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simona I was hoping you'd come! I was about to post this link,

http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_68_-_Timeline_From_Abraham_to_the_Founding_of_the_State_of_Israel.asp

Happy New Year to you, too--and Happy Birthday--you are a fellow Virgo!

From a book I read recently: "In Judaism right conduct is the path to God.
This path lies open to Jews and non-Jews." That I like!

After the hottest August in Salt Lake City history, it is now snowing, and has been for 2 hours. I cannot find the Greenspan recipe, am settling for "Ukranian Apple Cake" from the All Recipes site. It is a perfect day for baking and learning 'bout Abraham and Moses.
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woodstocker



Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 224
Location: kingston, ny

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rainey- CE and BCE are used in a lot of academic settings where the religious affliation of BC/AD could become difficult. Not that you're getting away from the fact that both start at year 1 on the same day, but CE/BCE is more politically correct. It's also the term that's used in archaeology for carbon dating if I remember correctly from class several years ago. Although, everyone should be aware that carbon dating itself is counted back from around the year 1950 or so, when the technique was really being developed. Carbon dating also has other limitations, but I won't go there here. Wink
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerpale- If you haven't found the recipe you're looking for yet, I wonder if this would be interesting: http://joyofbaking.com/AppleSconeCake.html

I found it while trolling for scone recipes and it looks unusual and promising to me.
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm--it does look promising--I was disappointed with what I made tonite. 3 too-distinct layers. Dryish shortcakey layer, apple layer (4 apples!) tender but dryish, and streusel topping--too much cinnamon. It did not meld into an "apple dessert". But it's OK..with ice cream..

This is what I was after to begin with:
http://www.sweetnapa.com/2007/09/20/the-heirloom-apple-pie-cake.html

Why don't I just stick with my tried and true? The blasted Internet, that's why!
*Meanwhile*--a bread question! here's an offering from Hickory Farms (the snack food company)

http://www.hickoryfarms.com/itemdetail_I1.asp?itn=035324I&catid=

What kind of bread dough would be good for this? Have you ever made anything like this?
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would look for a stomboli recipe. Here's one: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_26524,00.html

I'm sorry I can't offer more. I've never made a stromboli. But I'll bet you're going to do fine. ;>
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy Birthday to you too, GP. I'm am indeed an 58 YO Virgo, actually I don't like my sign, maybe because I find some of it's characteristics ( of course I don't believe in such nonsense as astrology.. but..) do apply to me... Well, we don't change at our age, don't we?
I tried to understand the thread linking Rainey's question about the Hebrew calendar with the apple cake recipes , and suddenly I understood , so simple :
The hebrew calendar begins with Adam and Eve, Eve is the woman who found the apple interesting and ate it, and then , after they left Eden, she was stucked on this earth with a lot of apple trees , and being the natural cook at home while Adam was hunting God knows what and whom, she had to invent something to do with all those apples she could not eat. So the apple cake was born, thanks to Eve. You see, everyone and everything is connected . We would have never enjoyed the delicious apple cakes was it not for Eve's curiosity. Actually, if we believe the story, none of us would be here today eating apple pies if Eve ..etc..etc.. etc.

No more war, more apple pies and cheers to THE ultimate curious women!
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S. Rainey, most of us have no idea how to calculate the Hebrew Calendar, that's what rabbies are paid for. Most of us, secular Jews, have no idea what is the Hebrew Date on any given day. But all official papers, calendars etc, have both the hebrew and the Gregorian date. The very orthodox use the Hebrew calendar for their everyday life, but public life is with the regular calendar. School begins on Sept 1, fiscal year too, but all the holidays ( religious and scholar, except summer holiday) are changing yearly depending on the dates of the Hebrew calendar. On the tombstones, both dates are mentioned. Complicated, but not very. There is a joke here who says the the best job one can have is being a Jew, living ins a Christian county and working at a moslem firm : so you work only four days a week and enjoy all holidays.

No more war, whatever calendar you belive in
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Simona you've started my day with several smiles,
you're worth several Eves!
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goood Moooorning Ameeeeeeeeerica!!

Thanks GP.

No more war, good morning/evening to a free world !
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