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Hebrew calendar question
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minty



Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simona , love your joke ! Wink

and thanks for the explanations too, but I have to disagree with you on one point : nowhere in the Bible - probably not in the Torah either - is it said that Eve ate an apple ....she ate the fruit of the knowledge of Good and Evil...
one of my mother's philosophy teacher was very impressed because she was able to point that out . he immediately knew she was not a Catholic... Very Happy
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course you're right , minty. And I always wondered what is it so special in the apple, why was this fruit chosen. Maybe snakes don't like onions? Actually I have to go and check the Torah, maybe find a clue .

No more war. More knowledge between Good and Evil, and more apple cakes.
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is a joke here who says the the best job one can have is being a Jew, living ins a Christian county and working at a moslem firm : so you work only four days a week and enjoy all holidays.


Sounds good to me! Wink
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minty



Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I do have a few explanations about the famous "apple" : the first one is that the apple seems to be the oldest existing fruit, known since the prehistoric era ....
the other one is that in the Bible in Latin, the word was "pomum" meaning "fruit", which then gave "pomme" in French - ie apple...
the last one, quite far fetched, is given by some psychanalists, and is that the snake is the symbol of masculinity, and the apple the symbol of feminity ...

another famous apple in the Greek antiquity is the one Pâris had to give to one of the three goddesses Athena, Hera or Aphrodite : that one was at the origin of the Trojan war ... Very Happy
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Griffin



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
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Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
another famous apple in the Greek antiquity is the one Pâris had to give to one of the three goddesses Athena, Hera or Aphrodite : that one was at the origin of the Trojan war ...


But that apple was thrown onto a table by Eris, goddess of Discord at Thetis' wedding. On it were the words 'To the Fairest'. The three goddesses started quarrelling over it as in, 'Clearly it's mine!' The rest of the gods suddenly remembered people they had to see and left, so the goddesses let Paris be the judge and being a young man, naturally he let his lust do the thinking for him and chose Aphrodite!

The other important apples in Classical myth were the apples of the Hesperides.

Apples were also sacred to the Celts and the Norse folk.
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe apples are so prominent in early literature and myth because they're a fruit that keeps so well. Eventually, of course, people learned how to ferment grapes and dry other fruits but apples still remain a relatively durable fruit in their natural state.
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe our Art historian friends could tell us when/where the first pictures
depicting the story of Adam and Eve included the apple as the Fruit ( tree)of Wisdom. I believe that the apple being already mentioned in Greek Mythology, as well as in the Celtic culture , it became the obvious choice for the first christians who kept, at least at the beginning, symbols of ancient faiths.
What I find interesting is that the apple and the snake are so differently treated, though both are connected with the "original sin". While the poor snake is feared and beviled, (except in Taiwan- where of course, it's not associated with sin), the apple is the most popular and versatile fruit . Can it be that we do enjoy "sin"? Or maybe we MUST continue eating apples, hoping to attain- at last- a higher degree of KNOWLEDGE, that deep deep knowledge all of us are seeking, and which one poor apple was not capable of providing???

No more war, I need silence , so I can eat apples and loose weight while aquiring profound knowledge!!
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a novelty song about a tender-hearted woman who finds a half-frozen snake, his gorgeous colors diminished by frost. She takes him into her home and warms him and revives him--and is quite suprised when he bites her! She asks him why he fatally poisoned her after she had shown him such kindness--he explains his actions by reminding her that she knew he was a snake when she took him in. (A song by Al Wilson.)
This song may or may not be about certain men. Wink

This apple/sin/history/guilt/ discussion could go on and on--on many levels!

Just last night I was looking at a "Two Fat Ladies" cookbook--recipes for --eels -- nope, couldn't peel 'em, couldn't eat 'em--too snakelike!

Do ALL countries have the expression "An apple a day keeps the doctor away." -- or is that uniquely American?
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
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Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What I find interesting is that the apple and the snake are so differently treated, though both are connected with the "original sin". While the poor snake is feared and beviled, (except in Taiwan- where of course, it's not associated with sin), the apple is the most popular and versatile fruit. Can it be that we do enjoy "sin"?


Interesting proposition, simona. Of course, in the Christian version — at least the Calvinist American version thereof — pleasure and sin are synonymous. Twisted Evil
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Griffin



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
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Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can it be that we do enjoy "sin"?


Well Simona, speaking for myself, I absolutely LOVE sin!!! The sins of chocolate in particular, but I'm not fussy!! Very Happy

The thought of the earliest appearance of the apple in art or at least in the depiction of Adam and Eve is an interesting one. The image that sprang to my mind was of Adam and Eve being evicted from the garden (which actually had more to do with their rent than the apple!) is either by Giotto or Masaccio but I'm sure there must be images from medieval manuscripts long before that.
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Zoe



Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 118
Location: Haifa, Israel

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerpale wrote:
Do ALL countries have the expression "An apple a day keeps the doctor away." -- or is that uniquely American?


Well, I don't know about uniquely American, but it's definitely not something that's used in Hebrew. I can't think of any expressions with apples in Hebrew, but maybe Simona will know some.
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No expression in Hebrew connecting apples to health ( chicken soup is the penicilyn around here), but there is one expression connecting it with morals- closer maybe to its religious symbolism- good and evil:
"An apple does not fall far away from the tree" ( free translation) -meaning:
the offspring does not differ from it's parent - rotten tree/parent-rotten apple/offspring, good parent-good offsprings. If we return to the "original" question, Adam and Eve had one good and one rotten son - so we can deduce that not all offsprings fall near the tree but it still remains to be decided which one is closer to the Adam-Eve tree, Cain or Abel???
Next important philosophical question being: what apple brand is best suited for the ultimative apple pie?


No more war, more apple pies. More Abel, no Cain.
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I looked for apple quotes I found many of them referred to Apple computers and Apple records instead of apple, the handheld edible!

When I make apple pies/crisps/desserts I usually use half tart, half sweet. Some recipes call for specific apples, but truly, I've never been unhappy with apples, sugar and cinnamon..no matter the variety.

For baked apples, though, (served whole, cored, hot) I especially like Jonagold (spelling?). The texture is just right, and the shape is plumply round, not angular like the Delicious shape.

I suppose it would be too much to ask that apple variety names are the same in different countries?
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Griffin, just to confuse you, 2 conflicting plans:

"Guard the senses and life is ever full."

"Seek pleasure, avoid pain!"
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Griffin



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 932
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Ginger, you know that with me confusion comes fitted as standard, but I don't have a problem with avoiding pain and seeking pleasure, tho' sometimes the two mix as in a curry so hot and yet somehow... soooo goood!

My senses remain unguarded tho' just in case I miss something! Wink

Either way, what's generally considered naughty and sinful is fine by me... so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else that is. Tho' I have eaten chocolate cake in public with the intention of corrupting the young... I don't know if it worked but the cake was fab!

For a giggle and because I have no shame, I am doing life modelling for an art class at Loughborough University this term. As a just-in-case I am going to imagine Margaret Thatcher naked, just to keep my, er composure!!
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