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Socc, er, uh, I mean Football!
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to be thoroughly and committedly disinterested in sports. Until my kids began to play soccer. Then I grew to appreciate the value of sports where, within the time constraints of a game, much of life is played out. You see drive, courage, focus, pain, devastating disappointments, people picking themselves up and carrying on from crushing blows. ...and the exact opposite as well — players' highest functioning and lowest depths. People have to use their bodies at maximum capacity and think very abstractly at the same time. They have to employ psychology and anticipate events and a hoard of bodies in motion in microseconds. They have to channel the rawest drive of the Id into something functional and do it all according to rules (that could make the mind boggle!). And real character develops and is evident. They are part of something much larger than themselves.

And then it's over. And, unlike most of life, the consequences of all of it are instantly apparent. ... for the most part. Cause and effect in your locker room or on your TV screens! Wow! How neat and how dramatic. Seriously.

OTOH, (and NOT taking any position at all on the WC final I didn't even see) I have to agree with you, Simona, that we don't always get to know everything and we might as well get comfy with ambiguity 'cause we're human beings and ambiguity is a BIG part of most of life. No matter how uncomfortable it is, we don't accomplish much when we impose "explanations" on it.
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God writes a lot of comedy... the trouble is, he's stuck with so many bad actors who don't know how to play funny. -- Garrison Keillor
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gisele



Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 154
Location: North of Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the footage that I saw on TV last night, it was quite clear that MM and ZZ had been having words., whereupon ZZ walked past MM, who then said something else, and ZZ turned straight around and headbutted him.

Either way, it was not the most clever of actions from either player...

The racist/terrorist comment came from a British tabloid who was speculating on what was said. Neither player, nor any of the teammates have offered any clues.
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Deste



Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 307
Location: Far, far away

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:00 am    Post subject: NPR seconds British tabloid on rumors Reply with quote

There was a story tonight on National Public Radio here in US in which Francois Picard (?) was interviewed. The subject read sports blogs in France and reactions to the country's loss.

MadameShawshank, all the speculations mirrored your own. A number of bloggers are claiming that MM called ZZ an Arab terrorist; to them, only something that egregious seemed a plausible explanation for the fact that the wronged turned around and walked back to deliver his blow. MM flatly denies that, according to the interview. However, FP did not go into further details, revealing what MM claims he actually said. The omission suggests that whatever words got to ZZ, they might have been too much of a source of shame for MM to feel all that indignant.

Moreover, while I noted how ZZ had acted similarly in the past, FB DID continue by calling the action uncharacteristic. ZZ had achieved a heroic status not only as a skilled athlete who rose from humble emigrant origins to a position of national prominence. He also has been praised as embodying grace on and off the field.
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gisele



Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 154
Location: North of Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh...apparently, according to lipreaders, it was a comment about ZZ's mother, about her being an "Algerian w****" and a little bit extra on top of that. ZZ's mum is very ill and was just admitted to hospital before the game and he was very worried about her.

Understandable, but still silly...
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are those who speculate, those who can't believe gentle zizou just lost it because of the stress ( maybe also because his mother's illness?), now there are those who read lips. What next? a glass ball voyeuse? reading in the cards?
Can't people just wait for mr ZZ himself to tell the truth? Or maybe there is nothing to tell, but there are those who spread rumours for very specific reasons: racism accusations work well today, now it's his mother who is ill, what next? I can't but remark that nobody's talking anymore about the loss of France , or the "loss of face" of ZZ, or the blow to MM ( deserved or not); everybody tries to find how was ZZ wronged and how great he is ( he sure is a great, very great footcall player, but je "lost " it more than once). So the "rumour" factory has reached it's goal.
When I'll hear what the two protagonists have to say, then I'll judge the facts. Meanwhile, I believe the PR machine works very efficiently..
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gisele



Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 154
Location: North of Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

simona - I was surprised myself that professional lip-readers had been called in to review footage as to what had apparently been said on the field. I just happened to be online while the news was blaring in the background.

But speculation is as much a part of life as ambiguity, and I guess most people aren't going to be happy until they find something that explains it for them...whether it redeems their hero or not. Or in the case of the media, makes a news worthy story.

As I said before, they were both as stupid as each other.
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Denise



Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Sénas, France (Provence)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apparently Zidane will tell us in a few days what happened, I think no one's talking about France's loss because it was a good game, penalty kicks are like flipping a coin so the French team did not lose face and no one blames them...some people are assuming the insult was racist because there's so much of that ugliness going on...but I'm sure ZZ is used to that and wouldn't get angry to that point....everyone just thinks it a shame that his great career ended with an explosion...what he did was not forgivable, even if he was called a terrorist, even if his poor sick mother was insulted, even if he felt the pressure the entire world put on him, but give the guy break! his act was not that unusaul, how about the English guy who got ejected for stomping on some guy's privates?! everyone breaks down at some point and football is not a tea party, especially during the World cup, Zizou's still our hero !!

did you see? World Cup 2010 is in South Africa, how cool is that?!! will have to investigate the recipe possibilities...
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man-from-gard



Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 10
Location: Cannes et Clairan, Languedoc, France

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"his act was not that unusaul ............. Zizou's still our hero !!"

Denise, unfortunately it was not unusual for Zidane. He has been sent off 14 times in his career, the last time for stamping on another player. The problem is that he is adored and is a role model for many North African, disaffected youths in the ghettos around Paris and other cities. Like it or not but he has a huge responsibility to these people and he has let them down badly. How can you tell a youth with problems to behave properly when his hero behaves like that? The best thing that he could do now is to make a well publicised apology and spend some time helping to improve the situation in the ghettos.
If I remember correctly out of 577 deputies in parliament not one is of Noth African origin. But that's another matter.
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If you think that your life is boring then read this
http://alex-in-languedoc.blogspot.com
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Rainey



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2498
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denise- Possibly the cutest avatar I've ever seen! Brightened my day just to start it by seeing it. Is he/she yours?
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God writes a lot of comedy... the trouble is, he's stuck with so many bad actors who don't know how to play funny. -- Garrison Keillor
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

soccer

Last edited by gingerpale on Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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Denise



Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Sénas, France (Provence)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks Rainey! he is mine, his name is Alex and he packs a big meow for such a small frame
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that ZZ has spoken, I hope the automatic very "a la mode" accusations that anythig said to an arab/moslem is necessarily racist/anti-islam will fade away. Not that insulting the "women" of his family is OK ( insulting the men is OK?) , it's not, but that's another story.
As for Mme Malika's Z. comments about MM genitals and what she intends to do with them, well.... no comment. ( MM is allowed to comment)

No more war, peace on the northen front!
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