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Believers and skeptics, welcome!
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David



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1855
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh miss a few days and I get a sainthood!! Thanks for the kind and generous words my friends---and in truth, I can occasionally be undiplomatic---but it is a trait I'd rather do without, there is quite enough nastiness in the world as it is!
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well David it was an easy leap from diplomat to saint, was it? (winky face here please!) --Over at "let's go to the movies" Chicago Bear has achieved chastehood, took the tittie right out of chastity, he did!

brighidsdaughter, you say "I never again thought it was other housemates playing tricks!" So what DID you think?? That it was a ghost? Wouldn't this change your life? Didn't you feel the need to tear the entire house apart and investigate the plumbing? Oh the believers in this world/thread make me crazy, make me hyperventilate! It's okay to calm myself I'll eat something good.

Griffin, okay okay so I fell for the Lichtenstein Incident--and I still believe in fancy 4 o'clock movie-set teas. Yes, it's delusions of grandeur fer shur.


Last edited by gingerpale on Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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brighidsdaughter



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Canton, TX USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not in the least convinced it was a ghost. I found the incident more amusing than anything else, but it totally freaked out the "believer" housemate. If it had been her in there, she woulda come out screaming! For me, it was just one of those little unexplained quirks that happen in our lives to keep us from getting too bored. I like to consider myself an observer of the weirdness in this world. I kinda enjoy telling about it to get people's reactions!
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queenla



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 105
Location: Wycheproof, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'believers'
whats wrong with them. why does believing/faith fill people with fear. It is a fact that there are unexplained things that happen.
My father figure-mums-friend- 'died' from a heart attack and when we went to hospital to turn off the life-support, and after he was dead and the machine was blaring he opened his eyes, sat up and looked around at us all. He wasn't breathing, he was dead. The medical staff had no explaination, they said it just happens sometimes. I don't know what it is either but if I believed that it meant something about death then good on me. it feels like some people in this thread are disapproving of people who might believe, and that is, to my mind, wrong.
I do think theism can be used as an excuse to try to control people, but fundamentally one should be open minded. existentialists are believers- in nothing. That should be equally as valid as believing in something.
I am not religious, I was not baptised, but I respect all views and will defend the desire to have faith. If you dont then you have a duty to discover what your ehtical and moral standards are and when you do that it will sound like a kind of religion because at is base religion is just a set of rules and as any adult knows a life without limits ends in auto-erotic asphixiation. ( sorry for ending with a gag, it is important to be light-hearted too.) anyway, this thread is fun and I enjoy a bit of meat.
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madameshawshank



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1654
Location: Penrith (where jacarandas remind me of change), New South Wales, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

queenla...nice to see you enjoying the chomp Smile

what I enjoy about the whole story.....is this...that no matter what one believes or disbelieves....

at some stage we all know ....

hugs to all

Thai for dinner..all welcome as we sit around a circular table.....soft lights...and talk into the wee small hours of the morn...how about it..
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

queenla --that's exactly the sort of example I think is dangerous -- a dead man sits up and looks around, and the medical staff said "it just happens sometimes". If dead people sit up sometimes we'd better quit burying them! A group of nurses and doctors "had no explanation" AND DIDN'T SEEK ONE? Was this reported? Why is it not common knowledge worldwide that a dead man sat up and looked around?

(I know this man was someone you knew, and I'm being harsh--but you were the one who 1st told the story. I see this thread as a debate, and it's my turn.

I do get crazy (meaning agitated, not mentally ill!) when intellectual curiousity is left in the dirt by emotion. It seems to me that all fervent believers in religion would be just as pious in SOME OTHER RELIGION if they'd been born to a different family. Sigh I guess I'm skeptical because there's so much to be skeptical about.


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queenla



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 105
Location: Wycheproof, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerpale-

what do you mean by 'dangerous'?
I think that the medical profession worldwide is quite familiar with these types of events, but doctors can't explain/know everything. I don't imagine that it is the type of thing to advertise because it would make people feel too insecure.
I disagree that a religious zealot would be such in any religion. I don't thinks its religion, but the personality and environment. taking it the other way around, I think there are many driven, passionate people in, for instance, politics and the entertainment industry who if born to a different a family would be religious zealots.
And I think that 'intellectual curiousity' is left in the dirt more by parochialism and lack of diversity than by emotion.
Death is a dangerous topic because it is the unknown for everyone and one person's faith is another person's fear.
But nonetheless, it is a worthy discussion.
I certainly am not not wishing to offend anyone.
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brighidsdaughter



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Canton, TX USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:02 am    Post subject: clarification Reply with quote

When I used the term "believer" in my posts above, I meant it in the context of believing in the supernatural -- ghosts, in the case of my housemate. She followed an earth-centered belief system, but wasn't in any way what I'd consider a zealot.

In the case of my mother, if she believed she saw my dead father, and that was comforting to her in her time of illness, then I don't consider it my place to judge her, or anyone else having a similar experience.

I have no problem with "believers", in any sort of belief, with a few extreme exceptions. It's closed minds that vex me at times.
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(First of all I hope no one is even REMOTELY close to being hurt, or hurting, in this thread! It certainly isn't the intention.)

I guess what I mean by "dangerous" is you might get burned alive as a witch if the people in your village believe in the supernatural.
Or you might get beaten if you're gay and the people in your city believe in the supernatural.
Or you might get put in jail if you're Galileo and you figure out that the earth is not standing still.
Or you're a little afraid to fly to Europe because the plane might explode.
Or you're a LOT afraid to put your loved ones on a plane to Europe because the plane might explode.

"Science is what you know, philosophy is what you don't know."
Bertrand Russell
I don't think it's a good idea to believe in what you don't know, it's dangerous.


Last edited by gingerpale on Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sarape



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 583
Location: Anniston Alabama USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I respect people who are serious believers -- meaning that they have thought deeply about the issue and read philosophy and made their own conclusions.

I do not respect (intellectual views) people who simply follow the crowd in their beliefs. That I find much too often.

I am of the Stephen-Hawking view in that there could have been some spirit which started the whole process -- clockmaker theory.

About Oscar Wilde and his theory on yielding to your desire as the only way to satisfy it. Shopenhaur and the Buddists would absolutely disagree.
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sweetbabyjames



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 357

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been said the best kind of person is a good atheist. He has chosen to be good because he identifies his own cause with that of all mankind. In other words, to be truly good, we have to decide to be good without coercion.

I'm no atheist but I do believe that to justify my existence within the framework of what amounts to a vast biological and social experiment, I must first do no harm...

The thing I like to ponder, the supernatural question is: what are the physical boundaries of individual and social consciousness?

I imagine a person as a magnet. There's a force-field eminating from the physical object. I don't know that my energy stops at the end of my body.

Maybe life and death are the warf and weft of the universal fabric.
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweetbabyjames said : It's been said the best kind of person is a good atheist. He has chosen to be good because he identifies his own cause with that of all mankind. In other words, to be truly good, we have to decide to be good without coercion.


This idea I love!


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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sarape your post mentioning Buddhists made me think of a saying:

"Guard the senses and life will be ever full."


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Sarape



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 583
Location: Anniston Alabama USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you can see, my spelling is often wrong, but you got the message.

I like these last couple posts and agree with them. My complaint with my perception of the Religious Right -- most of my neighbors, that is.

As we all know, the Bible was not at all respectful of alternate views and violence is strewn throughout; Rome and the Papacy carried on that tradition for a thousand years.
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simona



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Sarape"]About Oscar Wilde and his theory on yielding to your desire as the only way to satisfy it. Shopenhaur and the Buddists would absolutely disagree.[/quote]


Considering Shoppenhauer was a misogynist Twisted Evil , and the Buddhists (priests) abstain from wordly pleasures and temptations Embarassed , I have to agree with Oscar Wilde with whom I share a common preferrence for men. Wink

Sarape, I'm really happy Laughing to have you back on the forums, Cool even if you don't like french women smoking in bed ( see movie thread). The question is: if they quit smoking, it's OK?

No more war. I'm a non-believer in wars. A pure atheist when it comes to war. And I don't believe in the supernatural powers of G. knows who when the boms are flying above my head.
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