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Ever used a personal shopper?
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Griffin



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 932
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After David Beckham (football player, much over-rated) wore a sarong he was ridiculed for it.

Most men here seem to have a kind of paranoia that they'll be thought of as 'gay' (which just shows their homophobia really Rolling Eyes ) if they wear anything that looks different. For some reason, lots of people seem to think I am soft/feminine but actually it's just that I don't care if I'm thought of as gay or otherwise. I just don't think it's such a big deal... that and I detest bigotry... it's like being proud of being stupid... in public.

So Beckham was thought to be 'metrosexual' at best with the implication that just maybe he was 'a bit gay'. Being a football player he stopped wearing the sarong instead of telling those homophobes to grow up and mind their own business... sigh! He has a reputation here for not being very intelligent... and then he went and married Victoria Posh Spice, which arguably didn't do him any favours. Still they're happy so wotthehell.
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sweetbabyjames



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 357

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never given that much thought as to why fellas don't fluff their feathers a bit more, but I suppose you're right about plain clothes bolstering their masculine self-images. It's unfortunate. I find other women so much more interesting to regard. I do think a woman's curves lend themselves particularly well to flowing, draped garments, whereas a man's straight body looks better under more simple styles. Still, I love, LOVE Chow Yun-Fat in Anna and the King...those handsome colors (and bare feet)!

A sarong looks particularly masculine to me. I can't imagine folks jeering someone for it. It reminds me of Greeks walking around in bath towels.

I remember when my father was taking ballroom dance lessons, the instructor told him his job in the dance was to make the woman look good. I love ballroom dancing, probably just for that reason, but it's boring as all-get-out to watch. Give me Alvin Ailey any day. Ooo!...or flamenco. Those guys are on fire!

Someone should start a new fashion movement...for men of colors.
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Debbie



Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 861
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Griffin, I used to make all my baby brother's dress up outfits for fancy dress parties and school plays etc. I used crepe paper, which was good in that it didn't tear easily, but hell because it has a lot of stretch.

The period outfits can be easier to make than the modern clothes. They have less tailoring and more simple seams as they were done by hand. You don't even need a pattern. Some of my best outifts (including my wedding dress) were made by just throwing the material across the floor and cutting a shape that I thought was ok for the item.

There was an article recently in the papers here about men wearing womens jeans because of the fit. They referred to famous men such as Mick Jagger and Steve Tyler who have made an image out of womens skinny fit jeans.

Now I really need a personal shopper to do my fabric shopping for me. I go to the Marche St Pierre and go totally crazy. The "kid in toystore" syndrome was coined for me in this situation I think... Laughing I could buy it all and do wonderful things with it... if I had a huge house and 10 kids......... oh well.

Anyway, off to finish altering a friends leather coat. It needs a bit of tailoring to fit her lovely figure and show it off more.
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sweetbabyjames



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 357

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Debbie, I'd love to see a picture of your handmade wedding dress if you have one to share...???

I never finished my own (we eloped instead), but I just pulled the material out of the closet last week (beautiful champagne silk crepe) thinking we may have a do-over one of these years that I could start preparing for...
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Griffin



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 932
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooh thank you Debbie!!! I got photocopies of patterns for 18th century coats from the Curator at the Costume Museum in Nottingham and there was some info on how they were put together that scared me off! Shocked

I have some soft almost fabric like paper that I thought I'd use, but might be a bit tooo soft.

I loved the skinny jeans thing... having skinny legs the jeans are a perfect fit!! Laughing Thing is... most of the wearable footwear I have are knee-high riding-style boots so the skinny jeans are worn around the house with a pair of old but comfy suede moccasin-style shoes. My other trousers are bootcut and therefore perfect.

Quote:
The "kid in toystore" syndrome was coined for me...

With books, chocs and shoes... I'm exactly the same!! And I also want to get a cat in my life again... er, are you a long lost twin by any chance?! Wink

Sweetbabyjames,
I look at paintings of men in the 17th and 18th centuries and they have a clear masculine look... it's just not the same masculine look of now! All that lace for example was their version of 'bling'. Lace being extremely expensive. But all the floral embroidery on waistcoats and even some coats looks fabulous and yet doesn't seem to be un-masculine, however one defines masculinity.

I agree tho', I love womenswear because a female body looks so beautiful in draped fabric. Whether it's the polonaise dress of the 18th century or the Princess dress of the 1870s... or the gorgeous floral dresses of Alexander McQueen this season... dahling!!

I want to be good enough at costume making that I can vary the shapes so that I can have clothing with panache and grand sweep like Depardieu's Cyrano de Bergerac with his red Spanish cloak and those boots! Now that Debbie has reassured me, I shall have a go at making an 18th century coat for myself.

If Debbie is my long lost twin sister, is David my long lost twin brother?... and if he isn't... can he be anyway?!... ah g'wan! Very Happy
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birgit



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 247
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Griffin wrote:


But I have basic patterns for historic costume in a book called 'The Evolution of Costume'. I am trying to build up the courage to try an 18th century Justaucorps in paper first. Then if it works, I'll have a go at making a Griffin sized one!


Griffin, you're brave!! Just a hint: there's something much better suited than paper, it's that sturdy eggshell coloured raw cotton fabric. Don't wash, just iron. There are different varieties for sale (we can here buy some at the local ikea, maybe in GB, too). Don't buy the soft variety. As long as there is some stiffening in it you can handle it similar to paper but it's a bit more flexible and you can draw lines on it, too. And keep an eye on the straight grain (another reason why cotton is much better and more real than paper).

Have fun! Very Happy
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Barbara



Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 899
Location: Gold Coast Australia

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A man in a sarong is pretty normal in certain parts of NZ because of our Pacific Island population. THey even when them with a shirt and jacket for importnat occaisions. Not much different to a man in a kilt. Actually I love to see a man in a kilt.
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Judy



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 1196
Location: buried under a pile of books somewhere in Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Men in kilts! Mmmmmm

I'm reading one of Diana Gabaldon's books at the moment, in which the 18th Century Highland Scots always wore kilts. They seem to have a multitude of used for the plaids they wore - as blankets, cloaks, to carry things in.

Can anyone tell me more about a Highlander's plaid. Yeah, yeah, I know I could just look it up on Wikipedia or Google it, but a C&Z conversation is always more fun!
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judy I am giggling that you want to told more about Highlander's plaid--you and Barbara seem to have a healthy knowledge of the subject already! I must admit, I know what you mean -- if you know what I mean. Embarassed

Red plaids are so cheerful, I don't tire of them, but my personal favorite is the Black Watch--it's a dark blue and forest green design. Very subtle & classy. I have a shirting duvet cover for our bed made of that plaid--made it myself! Looks very crisp with bright white sheets and pillowcases.

It's called "black" watch simply because of its dark colors, and the fact that the military group that wore it kept "watch" over land in Scotland. (This group was called the "Ladies from Hell" in WW1--I suppose because of the kilts.)
Where is Griffin when you need him--he's probably a good source of info for UK clothing! (I can imagine Simona already, putting in a request for less war and more man-knees!)
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Judy



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 1196
Location: buried under a pile of books somewhere in Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerpale, I know exactly what you mean! Wink

There's a joke amongst the nursing sorority which goes along the lines of nurses have seen more men's private parts than ... er ..... ladies of the night. I know exactly what's under a Scotsman's kilt.

But back to plaid. It seems that the patterns were connected to the clans, and they had hunting as well as clan plaids. The hunting ones were in greens and browns, to act as camouflage. And I think that while the patterns were important, it was the actual fabric .....

Oh, my goodness, the courier has just brought The C&Z Cookbooks! More about plaid later. I'm off to have a good look at The Book.
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Griffin



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 932
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Birgit,

If that's the fabric I think you mean, it's calico, which was recommended to me recently. I'll see if I can get a hold of some. I was going to make little coats first and then if they worked out ok I'd do them my size.

Barbara and Judy,

Why is it that when you talk of men in kilts I just have this strong feeling that you're talking about a particular Scot... called Connery?!!! Wink
What's beneath a Scotsman's kilt is between him and his sporran!!! Shocked

gingerpale,

As Judy says, the tartans (we don't call it plaid) are in clan colours. In fact there's a shop in Edinburgh where you can have your own clan tartan made up. As a British Indian, I don't think there would be one for me!!! Tho' the Paisley shawl would be close seeing as they were often cheaper versions of the Cashmere shawl from India.

Yes indeed, No more war, more Man Knees... er, but not mine I have skinny legs!!!
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Debbie



Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 861
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Griffin, DON'T make a small version first!!!!!! It will put you off for life! It is actually harder to miniaturise something than to make it real size.

Calico is great. I made my ball gowns when I was in teh Army by throwing a bolt of calico across the floor, laying down on it and tracing around myself. Then I would "flesh out" the drawing and add detail such as neckline, length etc. After that you just had to replicate panels if it was a full skirted dress, or figure out whatever else was going to be the feature of it.

My husband quite often wears a sarong around the house. (He is maori) One of my friends kids asked him why he wears a dress at home?!? Laughing So funny, lucky it was not out in public though as it could have been misconstrued.... Wink

SBJ, I only have one pic of it here in Paris. Will scan and PM it to you. If you do not receive it within 2 weeks, email me. I am leaving for a holiday in an hour and return next thursday. With my brain, I may forget. It is not traditional, as we had a biker wedding.... yes, Maori and a biker..... what they say about bad boys is right. Sigh.

I know what a Scotsman wears under his kilt.... shoes and socks of course!

My exhusband was Scottish and I have to say there is something about a man in a kilt that can be quite sexy....

Re the twin issue Griffin. We know about books and cats being a bit of an obsession with us, but what about tea? I have a gorgeous tea set collection and am a real tea drinker (no tea bags allowed in our house!) in proper tea cups etc etc etc. Also have a thing about rocks and have been known to lug home over 10kgs of rocks in my luggage..... Does it mean I also get David as my third twin? What a bonus!

Oh, the cloak.... and Depardieu...... what a combination. Agree 100% about your comments re the pics in 17th/18th centuries.

Now that this topic has diverged into other topics.... I am sorry that we corrupted your topic. Wasn't deliberate, just a sort of evolution. My fault I'm afraid. Profuse apologies. Embarassed
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birgit



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 247
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Griffin, I'm not sure if it's calico, here it's called "Nessel", and it's described as an untreated cotton fabric. There are about 3 general qualities, Kattun (which might equal calico), which is the finest, Renforcé (about middle) and Cretonne (which is quite sturdy). Anyway, it shouldn't be too light because of the visual appearance of the pleats: think jacket quality in comparison to shirt quality.
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birgit



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 247
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

... and I wholeheartedly second Debbie: better no small version first, it's much much harder.
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Judy



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 1196
Location: buried under a pile of books somewhere in Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, now that I've finally dragged myself away from that gorgeous cookbook .....

Plaid means blanket in Scottish, usually made of patterned (ie, checked) woolen cloth. Early kilts were just lengths of plaid which were pleated around the waist and held in place with a belt, then the top half was flung over the shoulder, and over the head as protection against bad weather.

In American English, plaid means the checked cloth also known as tartan.

So I was actually wondering about the plaid blanket rather than the tartan pattern. No, Griffin, my first thought of a Scotsman in a kilt is Jamie Fraser, the 18th century hero from Diana Gabaldon's Outlander series. What a guy!

And I'd have a Paisley shawl over a piece of Tartan any day - those patterns are magnificent!
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