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Goethe's mother's chocolate cups etc...
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madameshawshank



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1654
Location: Penrith (where jacarandas remind me of change), New South Wales, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:10 am    Post subject: Goethe's mother's chocolate cups etc... Reply with quote



During a visit to Frankfurt I had the joy of visiting the place where he spent many days...reconstructed after being bombed during WWII...only a few of the original interior stairs remainded..

I can still recall how excited I was with these cups..the lids to keep the drink warm...gorgeous things...

Am tempted to post a couple more..since because you've opened this post you must be a little curious about DA MAN!

OK..now what ones do I think you'll enjoy...won't be a minute Wink
Have found 3 that:
a) I think you'll enjoy
b) Won't overload the post...

The toy theatre Goethe played with as a child.



From memory it was only the bottom two steps that are of the original staircase...perhaps I was pondering Goethe's ginko poem:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/goethe.htm



Again from memory ..this a breadcontainer...the top reminds me of chocolate..wondrous swirls...sexy swirls methinks Wink chocolate fabric perhaps?



Hope the distilled visit to Goethe's home has brought you some delight!

hugs
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Griffin



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 932
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh! It's years since I read Sorrows of Young Werther!! Yes, those chocolate cups... those lids are how you can tell it's a chocolate cup too. Then the coffee 'cans' are a straight sided cylinder and tea bowls don't have handles at least in the 18th century...

One little mention and all that curatorial training returns!! Good to know I haven't forgotten those little things... given how many other little things I have forgotten! Rolling Eyes

I also remember reading his journal of travelling through Europe. I'd like to read that again....
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nima



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madame, thanks for these. Very evocative photos. I especially like the theater set.

And Griffin, what great commentary. You guys should consider more collaborative work.
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madameshawshank



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1654
Location: Penrith (where jacarandas remind me of change), New South Wales, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh nima...the very THOUGHT of working with the mighty Griffin...the very thought!

how many Christmases (or should that be Christmasses?) could arrive at once..the very thought...

I could more than delightfully snap away...and Griffin could word away to the snaps...

hey G Man I might randomly post a photo and you could provide the words...every so often...what shall I name the post to be?

hugs
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Griffin



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 932
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I could more than delightfully snap away...and Griffin could word away to the snaps...

hey G Man I might randomly post a photo and you could provide the words...every so often...what shall I name the post to be?


Madame,

What's your pleasure?... let it be that. I remember the Wedgwood coffee cans and Worcester tea bowls with their little saucers that were shallow bowls in themselves. Worcester porcelain chocolate cups with their lids too... wonderful things - evocative of luxury and grandeur.
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nima



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This might be a silly question, but Griffin, if tea cups didn't originally have handles, how did people pick them up? Laughing
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come to think of it, I've always thought of Madame and Griffin as a team.
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madameshawshank



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1654
Location: Penrith (where jacarandas remind me of change), New South Wales, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerpale...you should have seen us meet!...outside The National Gallery...wadda team methinks...

am off to a music festival this weekend...might find something especially snapable...
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Griffin



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 932
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nima,

Originally the tea was poured from the cup into the saucer and then sipped from the saucer. The original saucers don't have the little inset for the base of the cup. You would pick up the cup with your fingers, near the rim and tip a little into the saucer from which you would drink.

I admit it - generally I don't like working in teams, but when the right person is there... I'm happy to join the team!! Madame et moi... that would be a terrific team. We could have the Mighty Sieg in with us too!
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nima



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh that's so interesting. That's how my grandparents always drank tea. I thought only Indians drank like that. How curious!!
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sweetbabyjames



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 357

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read a cute story about tea & manners once - some lord or earl or what had guests over for tea. When the tea was served, the host poured some milk in his saucer. Thinking he was going to drink from his saucer, the whole group poured their tea into their saucers (so as to obey the custom of their host). He then put the saucer on the floor for his cat and drank his tea from his cup, while his guests all drank from their saucers.

Speaks to another era when individual expression was less important than social cohesion.

Griffin, I have a set of what I thought were German chocolate cups - but they don't have lids (never could have - the lip is fluted & wavy). Does that mean they must actually be tea or coffee cups?

That breadbox has to be my favorite (not just because I love the saying "bigger than a breadbox"). The shape & evidence of the maker's hand still in the metal. And the thought of Goethe's bread inside.
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Griffin



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
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Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I read a cute story about tea & manners once - some lord or earl or what had guests over for tea. When the tea was served, the host poured some milk in his saucer. Thinking he was going to drink from his saucer, the whole group poured their tea into their saucers (so as to obey the custom of their host). He then put the saucer on the floor for his cat and drank his tea from his cup, while his guests all drank from their saucers.


I think that may well have been Earl Grey! Wink I am impressed that he thought of his cat first... it shows such good training.... by the cat of course!

SBJ,

The answer is that more than likely they are tea cups unless they are a straight-sided cylindrical shape (regardless of their fluting and wavy-ness) in which case they are likely coffee 'cans' or cups. But it would also depend on how old they are.

If they are 18th century my description would hold, but from the middle of the 19th century on it's possible you do have chocolate cups. Check for a maker's mark underneath a cup and if possible take it to your local museum - if they have a Decorative Art collection. The Decorative Art curator will be able to tell you more about it and whether it was used for tea or chocolate.

I suspect the current use of the term 'bigger than a breadbox' is a reference to our Rainey aka The Mighty Baker! I am trying to find both time and energy to do some baking myself... but I have all these books to read and they stare at me reproachfully until I've read them.
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madameshawshank



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
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Location: Penrith (where jacarandas remind me of change), New South Wales, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a few more for your enjoyment...this is a bit like an oldfashioned slide show..with the exception that one is not a prisoner in the room Wink


from the Goethe household


happy as a pig in mud...with the ginko leaves in the garden of the reconstructed Goethe house...look how they shine and gold ...


a little bit of Goethe ruffle (wadda ya think of that Mr G!...fashion notes if you please..)


birds of Frankfurt and a door


am loving the fact that you've enjoyed the snaps...so hope this batch adds to the enjoyment
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gingerpale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1324

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look how thick that ruffle is! To me, a ruffle is a thin thing--you know, ruffly. And look at the perfect buttonholes--this before machines could sew. Are you especially interested in Goethe because you visited husband's family in Germany, or the interest was there before?
The door is wunderbar ! --is the stone really that color pink?

Thank you Madame S!
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madameshawshank



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1654
Location: Penrith (where jacarandas remind me of change), New South Wales, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerpale...was visiting Frankfurt...travelling with Siegfried..stayed with our darling neighbour's sister...oh what we did in three days!!!

as for Goethe...well one would simply HAVE to visit wouldn't one!...

the ginko leaf 'n all...

hugs

'n yes the stone is that colour...
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